Of pub culture, moral policing and Hinduism

Monday, February 2, 2009

Not long back Mumbai and entire nation was shocked by barbaric attack on its commercial capital. Public memory in India is very short lived like chimpanzees. And in stead of rapting on world’s and nation’s worst foe- terrorism, the so called well wishers of Hindu religion and in name of protecting its culture, Ram sena are bashing and banging the youth. Biggest shame is that it’s done in by the party who bears the name of Hindu deity.

What is the great idea in attacking defenseless women who are adults for sipping wine? If this does not suit Indian culture does beating and molesting women suit Indian culture?
Calling them prostitutes and abusing just because they were in the pub partying - are we in a Taliban country or is Mangalore 200 years back in civilization?

Who have given these road side rogues the right for moral policing. Do they know anything about morality.BJP should distance themselves from these outfits and condemn those paragons of virtue , book these guys under criminal sections and be severe in punishing. This is an unpardonable atrocity on freedom guaranteed by the constitution.
Who have given them rights to take law in their hands? Who made them armament of a religious conviction? Who let these dogs out?
Lord Rama was that you?

Know what constitution says:
In several incidents of moral policing by groups in Dakshina Kannada district, the couples have been dragged to the police station by its members who accuse them of indulging in morally unacceptable behavior. In five such cases that have been registered by city stations (Mangalore East, Mangalore South and Bantwal Town police stations) in the last two months, cases have been filed against the couples under Section 92 (O) of the Karnataka Police Act, 1963.

The section describes the offence thus:
When a person, “willfully and indecently exposes his person, uses indecent language or behavior indecently or riotously or in disorderly manner in a street or place of public resort (place) or in any public offence.”

In police parlance, cases booked under this section are referred to as “petty offences” where the offender is let off after being made to pay a nominal fine. Under this section for merely being in love is a violation of the basic spirit of democracy. “In fact, the groups that are attempting to enforce these moral codes should be booked,”
A Chennai high court senior advocate says that section 92 (O) is “highly ambiguous” and “open to interpretation”. “
It places too much arbitrary power in the hands of the police. The meaning of the word ‘indecent’ can have umpteen interpretations. Anybody can be arrested under this section. "

Questions to be answered :-
Why state government is trying to protect hooligans?
Why the men and women who were thrown on road have not yet registerd the complained to police?
Why is police trying to weaken the case. ?
If we do not make this an example case and punish the people - it will send a message to these goondas that they can do anything and get away with it. ?
Will any of the above politicians will act when their own daughter is there?
Of course they will cry and go out. Just think these ladies who were kicked and thrashed as your own daughters and please act.
Why Dakshina Kannada district police have served a notice on the electronic media for their failure to inform the police about the attack. (It happens only in India - like a Bollywood movie they (police) always reach after the incident. And more so instead of owning and accepting their failure - they are blaming media)

Root cause of problem:
law is not strict enough?
Organizations like these because they see more benefit that what they will pay. The benefit from such moral policing is wide national publicity. And what they have to pay a possible arrest and a very short jail term. It’s important, therefore, to increase the punishment under law. In this case they should be charged under offenses which give them at lease few years of sentence - it will act as a deterrent for other such organizations in future. And in fact not only actual miscreants - their bosses should also be booked - who do not have guts of doing such acts themselves (and mislead youths and send them for such acts). Rigorous prosecution, conviction and punishment will only desist people from such anti-social behavior in future.

WORD OF CAUTION:
I never shore up any one taking law in their hand in the name of protecting a religion but at the same time we should also reflect that it will take time before we move from a socially conservative thinking to a complete modern one and more than this the femine gender should know that they are still vulnerable to crime most, so they should utilize the rights of the citizen given by constitution in a way that they don’t land in trouble. As long as they understand this and their errands, it should be fine.

148 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hello Mr
!!!!!!

Ramsena Attacked selvis house not during cauvery protest But that karunanidhi said some thing to lord Rama if you remember…..

I am not in RamSena but I say they are correct if Hindus don have such organization Congress will Definitely make India as Talibaan.

By keeping Afjal Alive they proved they are supporting Jihad

Anonymous said...

Sandy

Whatever may be the reason but it does not justifies the action (of attacking someone).

You are in this country and it has law which all of us has to abide by. If you feel the law is not correct - you can go through the legislative process and try changing it.

But resorting to violence and hatred and by attacking people - what you are going to gain? If you do that what is the difference between you and people like Afjal?

We are open to various views and by discussion only we can arrive at a common standpoint.

Regards
Bolog administrator

Anonymous said...

Hi

BJP has termed the attach as an act of hooliganism.

I feel Hindu organizations such as RSS and Shivasena should also come out with their viewpoints on this. The electorate will be interested in knowing their views.

Sid

Rohit Sharma said...

No action will be taken these Goondas ,other Right wing organizations will be encouraged to beat,molest and maim citizens not agreeing with the agendas,each organization will create its own “moral police force” as the Indian Police Force continues to be a helpless spectator weighed down with Influential politicians,Turning the State of Karnataka into another Gujarat

Austeen Sufi said...

Welcome to Mangalore. A small town on the coast of Karnataka, Mirror opposite to Chennai, and is situated in western Coast. Here we have a few colleges, and the people mainly are of Tolerant view. But Indescipline will not be tolerated here. Last Saturday, on 24th January 2009, people got a Information that one PUB in Mangalore by the Name AMNESIA was attacked by some Sri Rama Sena Activists. The news spreaded like fire, Thanks to Indian Media. And Now the full news has been diverted by media from the main cause of the Incident to Woman harrasment.

Let me start from the right start.

Amnesia is a Pub started and the advertisement was so great that, a Community was made by the owner in Orkut. And then the members of the community were invited just by searching for ” Mangalore+females”. Then all the females in Mangalore were invited. Mind you, NO MEN were invited. Why read the Blog you will come to know. And as its a Craze lots of females studying/staying/working in Mangalore, who had a female in their orkut profile recieved the mail and subscribed to the community. And if a Male wanted to join he was Not allowed. I came to know because My wife recieved a Invite. then after joining, they recieve a invite for various Parties. Now the point is Couple are charged a Entry, STAGS ARE NOT ALLOWED, AND SINGLE FEMALES HAVE FREE ENTRY. now you people can think why injustice. and the answer from the Management is that Guys come and create Havoc. Yes. But why single Girls?? Now there are Inmates of the Pub who come regularly. They sit around there, and wait for single girls to enter. In Pubs and Discos even if the smoking is Banned, the Guys smoke in Mangalore Pubs, and Mostly they smoke Marijuana, now due to Passive smoking, these girls get addicted, and then they are given Marijuana. Now if a Girl wants Marijuana in Mangalore she doesnt know where it is available, but these pubs are there were u can get it easily. so more and more girls throng the pub. and when they have no money these guys who are inside buy them marijuana, and they make sure the girl is totally Blown out of her senses. Then she is Molested, and used. when she wakes up whe doesnt know who when and what?? Now next time again since she is addicted returns to the pub, everyone will approach her, and she has Marijuana, and the Guys group have Fun with girls.

On saturday, the party was a Private party, arranged by these guys. And sri Rama sena, got the Information of this. To prevent to girls from getting used, they barged into the Pub and started assaulting anyone and everyone whom they found inside. They started beating up the guys and girls.

Now our media comes into question. The media has got the full tape. they were given information about the attack. They were ready there with their Camera. Just to attain TRP, they didnt even inform the Police. Doesnt Media have Public responsibility?? Last time I saw a Video on TV, in New delhi, a Motorist met with a Accident, and he is Lying on the road, bleeding, and one media Camera person along with a Spokesperson, is taking a Live broadcast, and telling Public that a Man is dying and No one is Helping, and after few Minutes the Motorist Dies. they are bothered about TRP’s then Public Life. they didnt even attempt to take him to Hospital, or even call a Ambulance. Same thing here. they could have told Police about the attack, But sat quiet. then when attack happened, they filmed the whole episode, drunk girls, Girls getting touched on their Privates, everything, and to increase TRP and to create a New controversy, they show to whole world only a 20 sec Clip out of the whole episode of 30-40 mins in which everything was recorded. They show Girls getting hit, and one girl falling, just see the way she has got dressed, I feel she forgot to wear her Inners, and the same scene, gets repeated. the whole Incident, from where it started goes into smoke and the attack was really due to drugs and alcohol, in the afternoon, to women Harrassment.

Public reactions: Politicians are great. One after other have started commenting. BJP firstly disowned, and then said, they will be punished, Congress for anything came up with Renuka choudary, Now next SFI, and NSUI declared strike. Does Anyone know why did this attack take place. Lots of comments on Youtube, when the NDTV Video is shown.

DOES ANYONE KNOW WHY NOT EVEN ONE GIRL HAS REGISTERED A POLICE COMPLAINT?? BECAUSE NOT BECAUSE THEY WERE AFRAID, BUT BECAUSE THEY HAD LIED TO THEIR PARENTS ABOUT SOME SPECIAL CLASS OR SOME PARTY AND BEEN THERE. AND IF PARENTS CAME TO KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING, THEN IT WOULD HAVE BECOME MORE WORSER FOR THEM.

NOW TELL ME SOMETHING: EVERYONE SITTING IN REMOTEST OR METRO CITIES OF INDIA ARE FEELING BAD, BECAUSE THE NEWS ITSELF IS WRONG. WHO CREATED IT?? SO CALLED INDIAN MEDIA.

NOW JUST TELL ME IF YOUR DAUGHTER OR SISTER, HAD TOLD YOU THAT SHE HAS EXTRA CLASS, AND GONE TO THE PUB, AND SHE WAS INTOXICATED WITH ALCOHOL AND DRUGS, AND JUST THINK IF SHE WAS USED FOR PHYSICAL, AND YOU SEE IT, WILL YOU SIT QUIET?? WHAT WILL BE YOUR FIRST REACTION?? YOU WILL FIRST SLAP HER!! NOW TELL ME IF RAMA SENA PEOPLE TOOK YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, AND SLAPPED THOSE GIRLS WHO WERE ON WRONG TRACK, DID THEY MOLEST, HARRASS??

AND WHAT DID MEDIA DO?? SHOWN THE WHOLE WORLD THAT RAMA SENA HAS SLAPPED AND MOLESTED THE GIRLS WHO WERE INNOCENT AND ENJOYING A PARTY!!

I am from Mangalore, there are lot other Places where party takes place. Some Parties have taken place in Gold finch(which is a other PUB), or even during New Year. No such strikes took place. why?? because in these places this type of activities dont take place. where this type of activities take place, there Rama Sena takes the responsibility (of ourselves) and strikes.

Now just tell me what is wrong and RIGHT??

Grade my observation!!

Anonymous said...

This has to end, right now. It is unacceptable that anyone can do this and get away with it. Every extremist organisation has done this before, and will do it again.

This is not like an individual case of attack against women. When there is an ideology backing actions such as this, that is an extremely dangerous trend.

Er. Paayal Sharma said...

This is not like an individual case of attack against women. When there is an ideology backing actions such as this, that is an extremely dangerous trend.

We should not allow any organisation, or even the government, to set moral standards for us. Laws are a different matter. But women have a right to eat, drink, smoke or dance in a pub and they should be able to do it without fear. Today, this has happened, and tomorrow, we can be sure another little-kjnown bunch of unemployed hooligans will the use the same excuse - “our culture is under threat” - and try to get some notoriety.

Anonymous said...

If you are a BJP supprter, convey to the party through whatever means you have - whether it is blogs, social networking sites, protests in college - that they have to completely detach themselves not just from this organisation, but the ideology they represent. Which means, they should abandon any problems they have with the pub culture, or women who behave against their standards of decency.

Puja said...

There is democracy in india and everyone hs right to do wat they want to do with in limits of law, wheather its a boy or girl. No political party came up for protest against such goons and extremist party y? jst because they are scared of loosing sum votes. Even these attacks are results of politics of votes.. but they dont know they cant make fool of us. We know our tradition atleast much more than those illiterate anti social elements attacked girls!

Anonymous said...

the most shameful thing is done by media…if such thing are done by the educated one,what can we expect from the oldies and the “CULTURE PRESERVING LEADERS”…..

Anonymous said...

What is shocking is that all these men just standing there and watching the incident happen. Oh and slapping girls preserves what kind of Indian culture again??

Er. Nidhi Mishra said...

Our basic unity has not changed. We condemn these as acts of terrorism, but also know that there isn’t a magical solution for these cancers,” he says, earnestly believing that Mangalore will return to its glory.

Anonymous said...

The crippling impact of the pub attack on Mangalore’s nightlife — an almost 50 per cent drop in business — is evidence of the insecurity and fear weighing people down. Though the management at Amnesia claims their business is back on track, at Liquid Lounge, barely 20 steps away from Amnesia, the number of customers, especially women, has dwindled.

Er. Nidhi Mishra said...

On several occasions, the police have told us they cannot protect us because they had direct orders not to. There has been hardly any public outcry before this incident because the media is also controlled by the ruling government. The number of strikes we have had as an educational institution is appalling. This has all made us very distrustful

Dr.Nishi Chauhan said...

will be surprised if the report is not favorable for the BJP. The timig of the report, I believe, will be such that, the BJP will be able to use it for its' political gains. The very purpose of this eye-wash is to show the BJP in good light.
What happened to the Babri Masjid???????
Only electoral gain....isn't it??

It is time, we understood the hollow acts of the government; particularly Mr. Yedi & Mr. Acharya's. If they allow, any Gowda will become demi-god.

Waste of public funds....!!!!!!!!

Let them understand what love is.......

Enough....No more eye-wash...

Please note, I have nothing against Mr. Justice Somashekara or the Judicial system.
Let these not be used for narrow political gains, at thecost of simple, poor peoples lives & limbs....

Anonymous said...

If this is the state of affairs by retd SC judges, where do we get justice?
Really sad state of affairs; Where do people keep faith in this democracy / mobocrazy?
--SC to ex-judges: Keep dignity intact-----

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/SC_to_ex-judges_Keep_dignity_intact/articleshow/3729645.cms
NEW DELHI: Retired judges of High Courts and the Supreme Court, rehabilitated with post-retirement assignments by governments, got a terse message from the Supreme Court on Tuesday: "Keep your dignity intact and quit immediately if slighted by the ruling class after a change of regime."

Reflecting on the recent clamour for post-retirement employment as chairperson of various commissions in the state and central level, a Bench comprising Justices B N Agrawal and G S Singhvi said in anguish that this had led to politicisation of important posts, even that of Lokayuktas.

It gave the example of Justice K Venkataswami, without taking his name, and recalled how he had immediately resigned as chairperson of the commission inquiring into Tehelka expose on defence deals after a controversy over his holding another post — chairperson of Authority for Advance Rulings (Customs and Central Excise) — was raised in Parliament by Congress.

"When a judge is involved in a serious assignment, he should just resign and go out gracefully when the writing is on the wall," said the Bench, which commented adversely on the apparent lack of grace in Justice Mohd Ashgar Khan, a retired judge of Allahabad HC, for trying to hold on to the post of UP state chief information commissioner despite the governor suspending him for misconduct and sending a reference to the apex court for an inquiry.

It virtually reversed an Allahabad HC order staying the governor's order suspending Justice Khan and transferred his writ petition to the Supreme Court after senior advocate Harish Salve and UP additional advocate general Shail Kumar Dwivedi argued that it was improper on the part of the former CIC to have approached the HC at a time when a reference was pending in SC.

When senior advocate Mukul Rohtagi tried to justify the course of action taken by Justice Khan, the Bench said it was surprised by the anxiety shown by the the retired judge to stick on to the post. "Maintain grace of a judicial officer. Why are you so anxious," the Bench asked.

"Propriety demands that he should have moved the Supreme Court when a reference was pending against him there," the Bench said. Its anguish was palpable as it observed, "It is unfortunate that such important posts have become political appointments."

Dr. Pragya bajaj said...

Well done survey but what would be the result in favour or not?..Well accompanied by Bishop of Mangalore, thanks to them for working. Hope report will be favourable and justified.

Anonymous said...

am saying the Chief Minister has to learn to get his act together to stop this. This is Talibanisation of India. I want to go to the Election Commission and say that these people should be defranchised. I am talking about the SRE, I am talking about the BJP if they are associated with this.

Dr. Neha Srivastav said...

This cannot be tolerated by the right thinking persons as it is happening in the public glare and many youngsters could later get into habit of drinking without prompting and neglect their studies and social commitment.

In the meanwhile the BJP has started the blame game. BJP spokesman Ravi Shankar Prasad also said that the hoodlums involved in the attack on some youngsters on Saturday at a pub were “neither from the BJP nor from the Sangh Parivar. “They are from an autonomous organisation active in the area. We condemn this hooliganism.

Dr. Neha Srivastav said...

because of the inability of the system to deliver; minority communities are feeling the heat. "On several occasions, the police have told us they cannot protect us because they had direct orders not to. There has been hardly any public outcry before this incident because the media is also controlled by the ruling government. The number of strikes we have had as an educational institution is appalling. This has all made us very distrustful,

Ashok said...

THE Hindutva brigade has mounted an utterly condemnable and outrageous attack on young women in a pub in Mangalore on January 24, 2009. A self-styled outfit called Sri Ram Sene (SRS) has claimed the responsibility for this attack and had even informed the electronic media who willfully collaborated in disseminating the message of rabid communal intolerance. On the very same day, SRS, in a separate incident, barged into a private party on the same pretext and seriously injured some people. Far from showing any remorse, the SRS chief provided a proud justification by saying: “My boys may have gone overboard, but whatever they did was to protect the culture of this country’s women. Their methods this time may be an issue of debate but I can tell you the boys were sincere in their intention of protecting the culture.”

Anonymous said...

Such vigilante attacks appear to have become a regular feature in Dakshin Kannada. Since the BJP state government assumed office, there have been at least 14 recorded incidents of this nature. Clearly, the existence of the BJP government in Karnataka is providing the required encouragement and patronisation for these outfits to unleash their barbarous attacks. The reactions of the Karnataka chief minister and the home minister only reconfirm such a suspicion. While the chief minister promised “strong action”, he evaded, according to media reports, questions on banning the SRS. The home minister attacked those who protested against this vandalisation and molestation of women by saying that they were, “blowing it out of proportion and seeking to make it a big issue”. The RSS spokesperson, while ostensibly decrying the hooliganism, qualified this by saying that pub culture was “alien to Indian ethos”. He, in fact, appears to justify `moral policing’ by saying that this, however, needed to be done through “public education and not public violence”. `Public education’ through violent punishment is precisely what the Taliban states that it is doing! The similarity of methodology is chillingly un-nerving – Taliban’s destruction of Buddha statues in Bamiyan and Hindutva brigades demolition of Babri Masjid!

Dr. Aradhna said...

Since the BJP assumed power in the state, the activities of the various tentacles of the RSS have intensified. Apart from whipping up communal passions and generating new tensions by creating disputes such as the Baba Bundanagiri shrine etc, the Bajrang Dal, VHP, the SRS, Hindu Jana Jagriti Samiti and other such outfits have sharpened their attacks against religious minorities, particularly the Christians. The anti-Christian violence in Karnataka rose sharply since the BJP government took over. In the month of September 2008 alone, various churches across the state were attacked and vandalised. These attacks had then created such a situation that the central government had to issue an advisory to the state government. The state government, however, continued to maintain that the attacks were provoked by `religious conversion’ of Hindus by Christians

Anonymous said...

It is clear that the RSS and the Hindutva brigade will now seek to mount various assaults on modern India’s secular democratic foundations and its syncretic pluralistic traditions, as the general elections approach, in order to consolidate their `Hindu vote bank’. In the process, they continue to mount a serious challenge for the very unity and integrity of India and the stability of its social fabric. Such Hindutva Talibanisation seen in conjunction with the growth of attacks by Hindutva terrorism must sharply underscore the need to ensure that such forces do not get control of the reins of government both at the centre and in the states in the interests of our country and the people. All Indian patriots must rise unitedly to meet this challenge.

Dr. Palki Vajpayee said...

Even Lord Sri Rama will be ashamed to know the act carried out by Sri Rama Sene. If they (Sene) is concerned about women, let
them build toilets in rural areas, where women till today have to wait for sunset to answer Nature's call..

Anonymous said...

It is inhuman. Not even animals will indulge in such barbaric behaviour. Our culture respects women. I am afraid that if the government fails to put the brakes, we will surely head towards Talibalization. The situation may arise where citizens have to take permission from SRS to conduct weddings

Shilpi Verma said...

The disparity in social classes — between old money and new, and those without — has also played a part. This is not an isolated incidentOur basic unity has not changed. We condemn these as acts of terrorism,

Shilpi Verma said...

The state has no business intruding in people’s private lives. It, in fact, has a responsibility to check the imposition of views by sticks and stones. Lifestyle activities like pubbing are only soft targets for political groups looking to score brownie points or anointing themselves as ‘cultural’ guardians. There’s no dearth of problems that the administration or our netas need to take care of, and young people having fun is not one of them.

Anonymous said...

With the police hell-bent on ensuring that nobody has fun, what else can you expect? The police department should understand that its action only reflects poorly on itself, as incidents of murder, mugging and other crimes are on the rise. How can you restrict legitimate activities like someone going to a pub and, instead, let the crime rate spiral?”

Ria Taneja said...

This incident only shows how low people can be to attack women especially... well seems like terrorist are not the only ones who want to destroy our world and our spirits but its the maggots like these who live among us,they are LOCUSTS who destroy everything they touch. And what do you know they are succeeding at it and thats because of us who just sit there and watch these people destroying everything that we love and what are we doing about it???? Nothing!!!!!! We just sit there on the flat of our asses and feel sorry and the next day we're back to normal.. Its such a shame! Our country is a secular country so where the bloody hell does mixing with youths of from different faiths come in???? All I can say that Its time to wake up people.. Unless we put a stop to such behaviour and such gruesome traditions our world and country won't be a much better place to live in. I wonder people watching this attack in other countries (if aired) will definitely be laughing at us to think that there are still some people who have brains the size of a peanut.

Ria Taneja said...

The terrible acts that were visible on the news channels just tells a lot about the dirty politics, that we have in our country and of the utterly demeaning acts in the name of moral policing that various parties can stoop down, to gain publicity at the cost of anything..Sad but true...High time that some thing is done in order to change the mind sets of these people who consider them selves propogators of moral policing..From Sibi

Anonymous said...

A handful of narrow minded,ill informed,fanatics and exhortationists have tainted the name of mangalore forever.We are not like this,i scream to the world but my scream is lost in he din and frenzy of media coverage of the unscrupulous mob.Its time we stood up against this madness or sooner or later it will consume us,one way or the other.....

Anonymous said...

This is highly unacceptable incident. In the name of culture these organizations/people are bringing bad names to all of us. If we observe the language/words these activists were speaking we can imagine how cultured they are. Those bastards should be punished heavily.

Indian society has to open up more in terms of allowing a person to do what he or she likes. Government has to implement necessary laws for the same. Also it would be great if all like minded people get together and start some organization to fight against these kind of assaults.

Swati said...

those people say tht women are like their mothers n should act accordingly.. so they mean to say tht women should not be in pubs n should nt do whatever they object..then wat about men... men can do anything?!!!! because of such pubs excessive drinking n falling on the road is reduced... n they call them mothers.. but the female victims have to say that when beating them up, they also took the advantage of touching them unpleasantly with indecency.. so i think this is how they treat their mothers.. the y r the cheapest people on this planet to raise their hands on girls... everybody has their own fredom of living n their way of life... if they do something bad,then God alone shall judge them...who are these brats...cheapest people on the planet... 5-8 people beat up one guy and that too behind their backs...Cowards.....THEY ARE DOING THIS IN THE NAME OF GOD N SPOILING OTHER HINDUS NAME. THEY CAUSING PEOPLE TO LOOK DOWN UPON OTHER HINDUS..I AM NOT AGAINST HINDUS, BUT I AM AGAINST SUCH ANTI SOCIAL ELEMENTS AND THEIR CROOKED DEEDS.

Swati said...

i urge the bloggers to blog on this topic as much as possible..or do something that does not allow this matter to cool down...all these blogs, the anguish of the aftermath should not perish so easily...today they hit girls ...tom who knows wats their plan...

Ritu said...

While some may debate this to have to do with simply ''disciplining the youth/women'', the dangers here are ten-fold: - Citizens taking the law into their own hands going unpunished, is as ridiculous as the infamous ''Honour-Killings'' that go on in UNCIVILIZED parts of the world.....if that is unacceptable in India, why is so-called ''Moral Policing'' acceptable? - If violence and lack of strong law-enforcements is the way to go - how will our kids learn integrity and also importantly, to become responsible citizens of India?? - Being a Indian resident of UAE (an ISLAMIC country), there are certain ''Islamic Laws'' that are set and followed with respect.....if THE NATION OF INDIA wants to ''set disciplinarian'' rules, then please make the LAW say so and any self-respecting Indian will follow this. - Do the CM of Karnataka (and/or other states) realise how MANY NRI''s and tourists visit or relocate to India? FYI, these are hundreds by the day....that too with the global financial crisis going on - several want to go ''back home''...SOON! While India is looking to move FORWARD, you have cities that are ''not safe'' because of the so-called ''immoral values'' that some "groups" misunderstand people to have.....how does one expect anyone having come from a ''forward society'' to live in peace with hooliganism doing its rounds!?? - Issues of ''morality'' are solely the issues of one''s own household, if not one''s own personality/character. It is NOT THE BUSINESS OF ANYONE ELSE - if there are people/groups in the country who have nothing else to do with their time, money or efforts.......THE GOVERNMENTS AND LAW ENFORCERS NEED TO ENSURE THESE PEOPLE PUT THIS TIME, MONEY AND/OR EFFORTS INTO CAUSES AND PRACTICES THAT HELPS OUR COUNTRY MOVE F-O-R-W-A-R-D AND HELPS THE WORLD AT LARGE!!! PLEASE THINK Bigger Picture and Long Term!!!

Anonymous said...

So what if they produced in court. They will out on bail if not may be in jail for few weeks. And when the matter get cold all will be out and slapping on the face of Govt. and Law. This is not stoppable unless there is a strong political will, they are the one who encourage these. Punish them first. Unfortunately our nation''s minister and it''s law become so impotent they every one is taking law in their hands. Be it Mumbai, Bangalore or rest. Day is not far when it will like Taliban or Pakistan. I feel sad about this, as it hurts me.

Anonymous said...

It was obvious that Muthalik would be let out free.. The police and the government had plainly given this outfit their tacit support so thay could do such attrocious acts with such imputiny

Anouska Awasthi said...

NSG commandos rescued us from external terrorist. Do we need similar kind of commandos to protect us from Mangalore kind of goons. Why NDTV calling thier acts as moral policing, They are not deserved the word moral to be mantioned in front of their names. we need to pest control these kind of poisonous insects from the soceity.

Er. Snigddha Aggarwal said...

condemn the Mangalore bar attackers with all the emphasis at my command and in strongest terms Actually right to pursue prostitution as a profession should be included in the constitution. Young women should be encouraged to drink, smoke and even fornicate in public, as ours is a glorious democracy that assures gender equity.

Anonymous said...

What I am unable to understand is the presence of mediapersons at the pub with their cameras ready to capture the action. did they have prior information about the attack? If yes, why they did not inform the police? Perhaps they chose not to fearing they may foil the attempt thus depriving them of reporting a sensational event!

Ritika Pandey said...

I hnoestly think that use of terms like talibanisation etc are overkill for this incident. Its a law and order problem, key is to probe and see if some political party or figure used "these methods" to settle scores with either the pub owner here. These things usually work that way.

I wonder if lack of strong action in the recent incidents of attacks on churches have encouraged the "let me fix it myself" groups. The deeper truth of the church attacks were like this:

One group within the christians in Dakshin Kannada region are seen (from first hand knowledge, I know that they are) very aggressive towards conversion. And, there is reasonable resentment towards their methods. The 'attacks' were directed towards only this group, not all churches.Government has been a little light (now, this is an allegation, I have not verified this in any credible way) as they know they have some "ground support" in this "indirect" stance against aggressive conversions.

However, letting vandals get away with such acts is not the way to deal with the situation. If it feels the need to act, it must explore legal ways (however controversial) like banning conversion for meny or whatever.

I am afraid that "light punishment" approach may have set bad precedents for the region. Folks of all kinds could use "these methods" to settle scores or brag about their ideologies.

Anonymous said...

this is just the start. I am just amazed that these people take it on themselves to usher in Indian culture - whatever that means.

If Mutalik wants to live in the past he is welcome to. He can stop wearing tailored clothes, wear clogs, stop using toothpaste, go walking or in a chariot or on horseback, stop using electricity (of course these sort claim that electricity and planes were invented by the ancient Hindus!), don't go by train anywhere, etc etc. He can ask his Sene to do the same. We can have Sati once again and burn women who don't bring enough dowry in. BTW Nazis had similar ideas about a great and glorious German history. They also believed that a woman's primary duty was to give birth to babies and take care of them at home.

With a government that actually spent money warding off "bad luck" from a solar eclipse by doing pujas all over the state, I doubt we can expect anything rational. These people also form part of their vote bank and BSY cannot antagonize them too much.

We don't need moral policing - independent or otherwise. There is the normal police and there is the law.

You're right - if we keep quiet, then we will be next in line. How do we send a strong message out?

Anonymous said...

We would be insulting the police force and the word "policing" by calling these sensless acts "moral policing". This is nothing but politically motivated goondaism and muscle show. The strongest message can be sent out only by the law enforcement agencies (which will unfortunately not happen). Speaking of whether terming this as talibanisation is an overkill for this incident, well I don't think so; the only difference is that in the other case there is more violence and they(the talibans) were running the so called government. This video leaves me completely stunned and ashamed - http://www.youtube.com/wa... I think the supreme court must invoke some extraordinary powers if available to intervene in this and make an example out of those thugs by meting out the strictest punishment (life in prison).

Anonymous said...

Good point there about lifetyle's of the moral policers!

So leads me to the same question - how do we send that message out? Firstly, I think arresting the 27 culprits - isn't going to solve anything. They were simply messengers. They were probabbly college students/drop outs who were sent there to accomplish a task. Which is why the whole issue of the molesting charges came up. These messengers were given a free ticket to do what they want in order to "punish" them. So, my jailing these 27, nothing is going to stop the next 27 from doing another attack.

What we really have to do is crack down on such fundamentalist organisations. To me, they are the same - whatever religion! Yes, it is a free country and we can practice any "culture" we want, but at the same time, we must protect the other persons right to do so. And this can be done through a good education system. If we mentally enforce this right to the new generation from an early stage, hopefully in the future such organisations will not have the taskforce of support.

But I also have this feeling that this whole item is nothing but a political ploy!

Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore

Anonymous said...

Thats all i can say. These things are like a blot on our progressive society. We are back into dark ages.

In an interview in Times Now, one of the victims narrated how they were manhandled and molested. Many of the girls' dress were torn apart. After all this - they say "These girls are like my sisters" !!!

I was shocked out of my wits to see the way they were attacked - http://ishare.rediff.com/...
If a society treats a woman like this - we dont deserve to be called a society.
Our freedom is at stake here. How can some one tell us what is right and wrong for us. Who are these people to define what is morality - a bunch of jobless, frustrated, neglected people - being instigated by people like Muthalik. It is an attack on the rights promised by our constitution. It is a clear human rights violation.

If these people were given a free hand, i am sure they will also bring down every temple on this land - citing obscenity.

If things are not controlled, they will only get worse. I doubt if the politicians of BJP will do anything at all apart from all the cosmetic stuff they have done till now.

But is there anything that we can do - apart from cribbing here? Can we write to NHRC

Anonymous said...

The threat to the country from internal terrorists of this kind are far worse than those from external ones like LeT, JuD, etc. What is urgently required to tackle this is state level reforms as detailed at

http://bangalore.praja.in/blog/murali772/2008/12/30/state-level-reforms-linked-security-issues

The civil society needs to push for it with all its might.

Muralidhar Rao

Anonymous said...

In a diverse multi-cultural society like India how can one group of people decide what Indian culture is all about. That too by assaulting women. It is my belief that the inefficiency of our judicial system that is strengthening people to do these kind of acts. Justice delayed is often justice denied. Is there anyway we can bring awareness to this aspect of our society ? I am sure if the people involved beleived that it would affect their life for ever they would not dare to do such things. How about 10 years in prison and a criminal record that would prevent them from getting employment or contesting elections or getting loans, etc. Three such acts and they are in for life (similar to california's 3 strike rule). -ebi

Anonymous said...

Enlightening. IMHO it is a power game with men increasingly threatened by what they see as the breakdown of their once invincible bastion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/mwh/germany/womenrev_print.shtml

"Women were supposed to emulate traditional German peasant fashions - plain peasant costumes, hair in plaits or buns and flat shoes. They were not expected to wear make-up or trousers, dye their hair or smoke in public.".

And see this interview in today's TOI

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Bangalore/RSS_has_some_advice_for_Rama_Sene/articleshow/4044051.cms

"Your organization has been preaching a lot about the ideal Indian woman. Who, according to you, is an ideal Indian woman?

We regard Indian women as akin to Mother Earth. It is she who has the responsibility of giving birth, nurturing and preserving our values. This, however, does not mean that she will be confined within the four walls of her house. She has every right to enjoy life and accept the positive features of modernity. But sadly, she is increasingly becoming a victim of westernization and this is weakening our traditional Indian culture. That's really worrying us. "


Why can't we regard Indian women as simply normal human beings, who have the same set of needs, wants and desires as men? So men go scot free and are not responsible for "traditional Indian culture". I would love to hear what this traditional Indian culture looks and feels like.

Srivathsa

Anonymous said...

I think we require the intervention of a body like the SC - to once and for all dictate what moral policing is (Define) and pass a judgement against it (hopefully.) Its something like Dowry and Caste Oppression. It needs to be made illegal IMO.

Anonymous said...

Like i said before, first and foremost, the strictest of punishment should be imposed on those involved by bringing all charges legally possible, it is basically called "throwing the book at them"(throw at the culprits every charge that you can find in a legal book and make sure there is no leniency..there is enough proof in terms of live video). Nothing short of Rigorous Imprisonment with life in prison should be expected. If you ask me what happened is worse than murder. The apt term I can think of for what is happening is "aaj ka goonda raaaj".

Ritika Pandey said...

Taking a step back, there needs to some legal step to introduce strong penalties for "disrupting public order". I am no legal expert. May be this already exists, but the thing we are looking for is a strong tool to deal with "mobocracy".

Collect 20 people, and you can get away with anything today - damage to public property, attack to business establishments, rallies that disrupt life in our city - all these are symptoms of the same disease - some people think that "mobs can get away as along as there is no murder involved".

अनु मिश्रा said...

I don't think these thugs need a fair trial, straightaway imprisonment it should be for them"

bialterminal also suggests using POTA as a tool to deal with miscreants who disrupt public order?

Perhaps our emotions are boiling over here. How about we turn this into a reasonable discussion? Wouldn't it be nice to provide a link to POTA, or list the provisions under it, or status of POTA in Karnataka, and if it can be used in cases like these? I am sure not for I have read some.

Or, how about filing an RTI with Police to ask what happened to the cases of public property damage and arson during Dr Rajkumar's death ceremony? Did the police act at all? Or did the miscreants get away using some legal technicalities as bialterminal suggests in a comment above?

I realize that emotions lead us to make blanket and motherhood statements, but I don't think we should do that here on Praja. What is reasonbale and sane for me can be entirely the opposite for another person. That is why we should do analysis, reason or fact based suggestions and discussions.

Sorry if I broke the tone of this discussion. Just felt like reminding ourselves about some things

Anonymous said...

What the Ram Sainiks did was disgraceful. But in the name of liberal society and progressiveness, can we have drug culture, sexy dancing, etc.? Is this liberalism or pseudo-liberalism? Interestingly, no body is bothered about increasing number of pubs etc. No hue and cry is being raised over their presence. In Allahabad there were lesser number of “Thanda beer” shops. Now you can locate them at every nook and corner of the city. But no one is bothered. You can find young guys/girls smoking and drinking beer together. This is the pix of “Shining India”. This is the image of “young and vibrant India”. Hats off to such glorious developments.Please don’t say anything to these youths-representatives of modern India. They are bubbling with confidence. Westernisation is being promoted under the garb of liberalism and democracy by the media to suit the interests of foreign MNCs and others to make huge profits. Look at the way our youth is progressing. They may or may not know about finer values of life but they are certainly aware of “safe sex” methods. They may or may not go to schools but you may find them in pubs. They may or may not talk with their parents but you can find them chatting with their GFs on mobile for hours! The CEOs of big companies are involved in fraudulent activities. But they are not ashamed. On the contrary, poor farmers are committing suicide to get rid of guilt of being not able to pay the debt. That day is not far when it will be hard to distinguish “home” from a “brothel”. Parents should not be worried about anything else other than imparting knowledge of safe sex to their children. The day is not far when mom will ask their daughters waiting for school bus “Purse mein condom to hai na “? (Have you kept condom in the purse?)

Anonymous said...

Your comments are amusing. I am not a supporter of Muthalik but I don't think he meant what you state. But are you advocating a society that is into drugs, alcoholism, teenage pregnancies, adultery etc. that is how western societies are and in the name of progress we indians are following it. Its time for society to introspect about what the meaning of the term progress is. we seem to believe that everything that comes from the west is progressive and anything from India is regressive. I cannot comment on whether Indians invented electricity but I surely know that ancient Indians and ancients of all societies [Greek, Roman, Chinese, etc.] had very good understanding of many aspects of life. Yoga, for example was a condemned practice until the west discovered it. now because of the westerners we are ready to accept Yoga as a science. Our slave mentality for the west doesn't seem to go.

Anonymous said...

The entire media knew about this cognisable offense atleast an hour before the event. The media is the biggest culprit behind this unfortunate incident. It needed trps and for making money, they have exploited the situation of the poor girls and boys. Why is nobody talking about that?

Anonymous said...

You have issues with young Girls and Boys drinking Beer / smoking together. Would it be alright in your view if they were eating samosas and drinking tea together instead? What do you have against pubs as long as they're legal and operate within the parameters of the law of the land? Whats wrong in being informed about safe sex methods? How do you co-relate CEOs indulging in fraud and farmers commiting suicides? Both are serious issues and need to be dealt with but you seem to suggest both result from progress being made otherwise. Your comment is otherwise full of cheap rhetoric and nonsensical innuendos that cannot be discussed seriously.

Mehnaaz said...

I have absolutely no issues if they have samosas etc. I have issues with this alcoholism and its culture that is pushed by vested interests to destroy the ethical fabric of society. The laws keep changing all the time. In Moraji Desai's period, liquor was banned. It was banned and lifted later due to certain reasons of inability to implement the ban. There is nothing wrong about educating safe-sex methods. But think about what kind of society we would be living in. Morality and laws are very closely related. Laws reflect the moral values of the times. I am sorry, I take objection to your last statement. I disagree with your last statement and I have made my views very clear.

Anonymous said...

Its not an issue as trivial as dhotis and kurtas. Its a very serious issue about alcoholism, drug addiction, adultery, rampant teenage pregnancies etc. Where is the comparison? The responses by the so-called egalitarian society show how brainwashed we are that we allow all kind of vices under the garb of democracy and individual choices. Lets get serious. We cannot have a society full of alcoholics, drug addicts etc. in the name of democracy. We cannot allow social evils in the name of freedom.

Anonymous said...

What I am trying to say is, no one here advocated teenage pregnancies, and all the rest which you have mentioned. All I want is, let people live their lives as they wish to, PLEASE? Do not impose ideas of culture.--------------------- You need to understand that in the name of freedom and democracy, we cannot allow all kinds of social evils like alcohol and teenage pregnancies. Ask any sociologist or counsellors to know how serious these two issues have become. Our society is going to dogs because of irresponsible democracy. where did I support corruption sir? Where did I support all those adjectives that you mentioned? My stand is that we cannot have anything under the banner of liberalism. The liquor lobby is having its way through all sorts of banners. Think about it. Think about what the future generations are going to be.

Anonymous said...

Even If I were to assume for the sake of argument that drug addiction is rampant in Russia, no one here is suggesting we emulate that. You seem to blame media for a lot of things without substantiaing any of your accusations. I think a thriving media is an essential part of a functional democracy. We should raise responsible citizens, arm them with quality education and pluralistic values. Having done that we should have belief in their ability to tell facts from the fiction. I don't know what in your opinion vices are, if you think young boys and girls spending time in each other's company is a vice, that frankly is your problem, that you need to get over, and not a vice that media or anybody else is propagating.

Anonymous said...

There is no comparison between a thinly populated west and an over crowded India. Inspite of all the progress the west has enormous problems, though much less when compared to India. Who said that people can walk at night safe in America? One of my friends got mugged some years back. Robberies exist everywhere. Attacks take place in all countries. The other side of the fence looks greener always. India has much more complicated problems though. But who is safe? Nobody is.......refering to your comments about prayers, moral values etc., you seem to say that we should ban all that. Its like saying that ban medicine because there are a lot of quacks. Corruption is there in all systems. Society keeps changing and misconceptions start creeping. It doesn't mean that the system itself is bad. Quackery is rampant, so we start banning medicine itself. Think about future generations. Think about how the media is going about and what it is trying to promote. Every newspaper has pictures of page-3 women.

Anonymous said...

You seem to be giving a clean chit to the media. How do I know? I am aware of all that is happening. Nobody in their right mind would ever say that the media has any high standards these days. Even Editors privately admit it. Sensationalism and page-3 culture is all that the media does. Do I need to substantiate my accusation? Are you unaware of the surroundings? Media is in theory a very functional part of any democracy. So much for the theory. In practice, we know what it is all about. All countries, I am told are facing a deterioration of the media. Its like saying sir, that parliament is a very important functional part of a democracy. Would you say that parliament is upholding high standards? How do you raise responsible citizens? What according to you is responsibility? What according to you is quality education and pluralism? Are we really doing that today? Its all in theory sir. 50% of India is starving and is on one square meal a day. Do you know how difficult it is to get admission in schools? To your last statement, you have imagined certain things and you believe that I stand for that. When I said vices, I refer to overall deterioration in terms of alcoholism, drug addiction, etc. Nobody says that girls and boys shouldn't mix together. Its a total misinterpretation. My point is that we need to contain freedom to some extent [This is an interpretation however] and cannot allow deterioration of social values in its name.

Anonymous said...

Morals ultimately become the law. There is a moral belief that it is wrong to commit theft.It is a law. At one point in time, liquor itself was banned because morals of those days were more traditional than today. See the connection. Who makes laws? Laws are made by some MPs without any discussion and these MPs themselves don't even have 50% majority! Are MPs our moral teachers? My response to your reference to the 21 year old girl is this. As a society, you have to admit that we are caught up between two opposite norms - traditional and modern. While you guys talk about a girl going out with a guy and wearing semi-nude clothes in a Pub [This is what they were allegedly wearing in the Mangalore bar], how many of you would tolerate your own women doing that? We are just hypocrats. We want other women to do that, we don't want our own women out there. Now, this is just one aspect. The second aspect is that in the name of freedom for all above a certain age, we seem to be allowing a deterioration of society and morality. As time passes, we would see more and more people doing just that. More and more alcoholics and more and more such related behaviour. Question is: Just because of attaining majority, and in the name of democracy, can we allow a silent deterioration that creeps into our system which would ultimately ruin the system itself?

Anonymous said...

Most of you guys must be thinking that I support the Ram sevaks or whatever they call themselves. Let me make this very clear to you: I never ever support what they did and the way they went about. I never ever support the stupid media that didn't inform the police even though they had all the information with them. Having said this, I wish to draw attention to the silent deterioration in social and moral standards that is happening under the banner of freedom and democracy. If there are 100 people who are drug and alcoholics today, in times to come, with the collaboration of the media, the numbers would rise significantly enough to change the laws themselves. When the numbers rise, the laws change accordingly. Think about this.

Anonymous said...

Not maitaining a high standard and propagating vices are two different things. Yes there are bad apples in Media but I'm not about to blame them for all the social evils. Quality education in the context of this post is to posess the ability to tell truth from the fiction. Pluralism is to respect others and their view as much you want them to respect yours. Not imposing your morals on others. To behave responsibly is to be aware of your rights and obligations and to respect them. Your point about people starving and admission to schools is a real problem that needs addressing. It can be discussed in a seperate post. I didn't mean to presume anything on your behalf, I qualified that statement with an if, good you don't have anything against boys and girls mixing. I cannot see how curtailing any freedom that is within the boudaries of Law bring about any good.

Jyoti Dixit said...

Think about this. Alcoholism is allowed to thrive today because of various reasons. The various agencies and the media make it fashionable to drink and pub all the time. In due course, the number of alcoholics would increase dramatically. In another 10 years, alcoholics would support any law that would reinforce alcoholism. Similarly, drug addiction is a social evil and it is banned today. In a few years, as the drug peddlers lobby becomes powerful, they pressurise the media and the govt. to allow it in a more sober and silent way in the name of democracy and individual choice. That's how all social evils thrive. Same with adultery and other forms of behaviour. Though there are no lobbies behind all those vices, political correctness would make it acceptable and legal. Do you want to allow social evils in a very sober way? I call the lack of morals slow and certain poisoning of society

Anonymous said...

I think what happened in mangalore is deplorable. I think such kind of acts should never be allowed in a democracy. However, there is a need for society/community as a whole to have discussions about what is acceptable for the society in a more mature way. The ballot measures in the US is one example of how something like this can be done. In a country as diverse as ours there is bound to be very diverse opinion as is seen in this forum itself. There is a need to recognize this diversity. Facilitating and creating environment where the differing views are heard and laws enacted and enforced. Media and politicians will eventually provide what people want.

Anonymous said...

Think about this situation. Today, liquor is allowed and is legal. In years to come, without any doubt, more people would be addicted to it. Laws would be more liberal to allow and breed this evil of alcoholism. Similarly, today's illegal thing such as drugs would become legal after sometime when it is allowed to breed silently. The same thing applies to adultery, and other such behaviour. Just because something is legal today, if allowed to thrive, would become a serious social evil tomorrow. All religions or most of them came into existence because of social deterioration and immoral behavior. Just because of a certain thing being legal doesn't necessarily mean it is correct. This is a silent killer. It kills society. Today, you may have the freedom to choose things. Tomorrow, your children will have no choice because today's minority of immoral people would have become tomorrow's majority. Today, the govt. wants to legalise live-in relationships. Only a minority of people actually go in for that. Tomorrow, it will be made compulsory.

Anonymous said...

agree with you sir, but to an extent. I agree about the ballot provided powerless voices like mine are also heard. Today, the media refuses to print my views because its against the various lobbies that they support. Public opinion and popular perception is always in the hands of the mass media. They have the power of altering perceptions through their presentation of news and views. Naturally people would toe the popular line - that which the powerful people want. 90% of India is following the agenda of 10% powerful people in the media, politics, bureaucracy, and various lobbies. They all have the common agenda of showcasing non-issues so that the real issues are not dealt with. From an independent angle, think about the silent effect that deterioration of social values has on future generations. New social evils in the form of alcoholism, drugs, junk food, obesity, adultery, etc. would be the order of the day. Powerful lobbies within the society would always try to market their products by convincing the people. We only invite new-age diseases and social evils.

Anonymous said...

How is not maintaining high standards and propagating vices two different issues? By propagating vices, the media has lowered its standards. Open any page of any newspaper or watch a T.V. channel. Look at the number of page-3 articles in them. Most articles propagate a culture that most Indians still consider immoral. There are articles that promote live-in as a way of living. There are other articles that promote promiscuous lifestyle. Forget it. In the Mangalore incident, the media knew about the attack 1 hour in advance. They should have informed the police. Instead they exploited the poor girls to get more TRPs. Sorry Aagarwalji, I cannot give a clean chit to media. IF THE MEDIA HAD DONE ITS DUTY, THIS UNFORTUNATE INCIDENT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED.

Anonymous said...

If I need to coin some terms, I can do it. I can call people terrorists for not agreeing to my views. But I desist. I didn't know that my views were Talibanist. About laws, they have always been based on morals, possibly morals of the majority. Alcoholism was considered an evil about 30 years back. It was banned for sometime. Is this individual thinking? Or is this restricted to a community? Women dancing in semi-nude is about obscenity and majority of people still don't approve of it. Where is the oppression? Do we want a culture of nudity? Then lets take off all our clothes and walk naked! How do you know that people opposing the Pub culture or dancing in the nude are in a minority? Irrespective of minority or majority, do you want to promote alcoholism and other related social evils? Do we want liquor lobbies to rule our society? Just because I don't drink, its doesn't mean that I allow deterioration in society which would some day affect me. That way, dowry system need not be banned. I don't accept or give dowry. So, if You are giving or taking dowry, why should I fight it? Can you now see the logic? Is the evil of dowry individual thinking?

Anonymous said...

But what I still cant understand is why as individuals we can't follow the cultre we want to and instead want everyone to follow an individuals culture. I think its greed more than need.------------------------------- Its simply the greed of the powers that be. The media, govt, lobbies, MNCs are all controlling out thought processes and our values have been corroded because of their constant propaganda. Nobody in this forum is prepared to say that alcoholism is bad. It shows how much we are brainwashed. Yes sir we all follow our culture and our own values. It doesnt mean that we allow deterioration of social values. In the name of freedom, can we allow corruption? Okay, today corruption is illegal. But there have always been times when many illegal things were legally allowed. There was a time when dowry was legal. Does that mean that it was right? Individual choice?

Anonymous said...

Here is my 2 cents. If we really analyze this issue closely, it is a clear case of mis-governance and pathetic Law enforcement.

The accusations that Pub & Bar culture is threatening Kannada & Kannada Pradesha's long held cultural values, need to be looked at. No one can deny that there is a exponential rise in outlets that are licensed to sell alcoholic drinks from Toddy, arrack to wines. In my last 2 visit to India (one in 2002 and 2006), what I experienced and found out was that 2 businesses are thriving every where from a small village to cities is - Money lending and Liquor business. Experience tells us that due to politics, narrow political & ideological gains these businesses have been left unregulated and almost un supervised. Even the licensing is there just for big fat bribes, not for any regulation.

I am not advocating 100 % ban or free sale. The mess is all about mis governance. Neither we are sure that there should be 100% prohibition nor we are convinced that it should be 100% free for business. States have experimented both extremes and both extremes have failed. Not because of anything except for half hearted efforts and no sincerity in implementation. Even in states like Gujarat which is a dry state, you can get any alcoholic drink you want. AP failed in the prohibition efforts recently.

The liquor business is very tempting business for all. For govt more revenue as taxes, babus more bribes and businesses more profits with potential benefits of contacts and contracts from Politicians. The whole case rests on governance and a strong will to deal with the trade and its impact. I need not go into the effects of alcoholism and how it affects families and social fabric. Strong governance and law enforcement can prevent the social breakdown and also stop huge loss of revenue to govt from this business. Liquor is in one of the most traded/bribed item in the corridors of power and corporate world. Extortion, Goondaism and anti-social menaces are all ements that are connected with this mis governance. The attack on Pub is one such manifestation.

Coming to the issue of every tom & dick becoming law enforcer/breaker, it is the manifestation of our pathetic policing & law enforcement culture. If policing and law & order had played their role effectively, no KRV, no MNS would have dared to transgress one's rights and privacy. Again the entire blame is on Political class, who in their selfish motives and ill-designed games, has rendered police and the law enforcement toothless and action-less. Many times these are the very people whom the govt and politicians extend their support and blessings. If any thing is to be done, it is the clean up of politics with these viruses. We need to get rid of the goons, selfish netas and fraudsters from the political spectrum. Basically vote for one who values life, liberty and freedom of others, not only his.

Syed

Anonymous said...

The media is very powerful. That's why every political party now wants to have a T.V. channel. The powers behind the media are many. They are literally controlled by various groups and vested interests. In Mayawati's case, there are other powerful factors that neutralise the media. Mayawati has goons at the lowest level to turn votes in her favour. During Gujrath elections, you may have noticed sudden increase in anti-Modi news and articles all over. It shows that there are agendas behind the media. Why didn;t they show Modi in poor light right from 2001? Why 2 months before the elections? Similarly, in this Mangalore incident, I also have the feeling that the Ram Sainiks could have been bribed heavily to commit the act to embarass the local govt. and to get some votes in the favour of the opposition. Lok Sabha elections are due in 2 months. [Just a speculation]. The PUBs are as dangerous as road side liquor and arrack shops. The Ram Sainiks attacked the PUB just to get maximum coverage. [This is another speculation]. The media got their spice, the Ram Sainiks got their coverage overnight, and the opposition got to score political points.

Anonymous said...

Strong governance and law enforcement can prevent the social breakdown and also stop huge loss of revenue to govt from this business.----------------------------- Alcoholism is an evil. Promiscuous behaviour is another. Laws don't cover many social evils like these two. So, where is the question of enforcing that which doesn't exist?

Anonymous said...

bialterminal: The incident in Mangalore has brought about the issue of deteriorating values, alcoholism, drugs etc. to the fore, apart from the hooliganism that we all witnessed. Nobody would support hooliganism. I don't. But, to say that anybody above the age of 18 can behave as they wish is also not correct. Laws don't cover all social evils. Alcoholism, semi-naked dancing in pubs, promiscuous behaviour are simply not covered. Would we tolerate our sons and daughters getting into these assuming that they are above 18 years in age?

Anonymous said...

Looks like you have a misconception that in western world alochol,tobacco & drugs are free for all.

In the US, anyone under the age of 21 is prohibited from consuming alchohol & tobacco. Any bar,pub, restaurant,liquor store who sells alcohol/tobacco to anyone under 21 is punished severely. So its in their best intrest to check the ID before selling these to anyone.Any kind of drugs is illegal in the US.Anyone caught selling or in possession of controlled substance are convicted.Scantily or inappropriately dressed men & women can be booked for indecency.

This is law and order. Going and beating up people which you have been supporting is talibanism. Plain & simple.

And who gave you or anyone the RIGHT to beat up people anyway. FYI... if you go and beat up people in a western world you will end up behind bars for atleast few years and will be branded a convicted criminal for rest of your life.

PS:I live and also spent my college years in the US,so please don't ask me how do I know about the alcohol & tobacco law in the US

Anonymous said...

Our country has adopted democracy as its form of governance. And, for all its short-comings (and, nobody is denying there aren't plenty of it), it still is the most acceptable form for any civilised society. There have been suggestions here that there should be certain curbs on freedom - of what kind, and who decides what?

Most PRAJA members haven't possibly experienced what happened when curbs on freedom were imposed by Mdm Indira Gandhi, during her infamous 'emergency' rule. It was her son Sanjay Gandhi who just took arbitrary decisions, like enforcing 'family planning' by subjecting parents with two or more children to vasectomy/ sterlisation operations, using government machinery. The babu's were given targets, and in order to achieve it, they used agents to round up even bachelors and spinsters and forced them to undergo the surgery. If you don't believe this, please ask any Delhiite, above the age of 55.

The press was gagged. So much so, the venerated Indian Express editor of those times, Mr Frank Moraes, published a few editions with the editorial page totally blank, to convey his protest (And, that's why I will always subscribe to Indian Express, even with a few things having gone wrong with the publication subsequently).

Rather than condemn the media, my admiration for it has increased considerably after the way its coverage of the Mangalore incidents forced the BJP government to do more than it was prepared to do initially. Even assuming that it had been tipped off in advance by the perpetrators, if one were to go by the conspiracy theory, the media certainly can't have known what exactly was planned. And, without that, what were they supposed to have told the police? The more important aspect is, even with such graphic details of the atrocities captured by the media, why was the government still pussy-footing the issue?

Media is one of the most important pillars of democracy, and for all its short-comings (and, there indeed are a few), it's playing a stellar role in bringing about the much needed balance in the system. And, the competition between them, besides, is helping correct most of the short-comings.

And, Mayank, Draupadi in the venerated Mahabharata was shared by five brothers. That doesn't mean that Hindu's should be espousing that example. We in PRAJA can very well do without self-righteous preaching, please!

Muralidhar Rao

Amrita Kumari said...

Moral policing" itself is a term coined by certain vested interests to promote their own agenda - liberalism or rights without any responsibility. I don't call the Mangalore incident "Moral Policing". It is just plain hooliganism and assault. I support you when you say that there is no point in blaming or pointing fingures about west and east. Drinking and dancing/ vulgarity has been there in several societies. In recent history, it appears that this is prevalent more in the west. That doesn't mean it didn't exist in India. So, is this acceptable or not? I do not support the view that we simply keep quiet while the society takes to all kinds of vices. The banner of freedom and democracy is being misused to allow all kinds of social vices to creep in and ultimately in the long run, destroy the social fabric. A society full of alcoholics, PUBBERS, call girls etc. is not going to be good for the health of any society. There is no comparison between Yakshagana or Draupadi and what I have stated above. Absolute liberalism would plunge the society into chaos slowly and steadily. People can see only the obvious. Slow poisoning is equally dangerous.

Anonymous said...

These are assaults on some of our fundamental rights. The road to hell is always paved with good intentions. Today it is drinking in a pub. Tomorrow it will be against wearing jeans. The day after it will be about talking in English in public. And then about listeniing to Pink Floyd :) Who gets to decide what is desirable or not?------------------------ Nobody supports the violence and ill-treatment meted out to the people at the Pub. Never ever. The Ram Sainiks need to be punished severely. However, our obsession with fancy concepts of freedom without responsibility, democracy, etc. may lead the road to hell for our future generations which will pay the price for our obsessions. Our own generation is witness to high divorces, adulterous behaviour, lack of trust in partners, alcoholism, drug addiction, teenage pregnancies etc. Is this heaven or hell? Who gets to decide what is desirable or not? Certainly not the media, nor the MNCs who want to ruin our social health. Its we, the people. We need to think ahead of our times.

Anonymous said...

I think there needs to be a separation between laws and morals. Laws are required for any society to survive. Laws in a democracy should be based on a common set of acceptable values for the society. In a society the laws have to be constant where as the morals will be different for different people. If some one tries to enforce their moral values on others through goondaism then it will be moral policing. I think everybody inclusive of Mayank is in agreement that moral policing is bad. There seems to be a difference in the way we view what should be right for the society. Indian democracy and constitution does provide the means for legislating new laws. So if "pub culture" is indeed bad for the society then the legislature process needs to be followed. This would mean you need to define what it is and why it is bad for the society and drum up popular support for it and also if it is realistically enforceable without malpractice. Then convince your representative that it is a good cause to fight for and the legislate a law and enforcement mechanism.

Anonymous said...

If an individual wants to get drunk at his own expense, not harm anyone around and "ape" western culture without affecting any of us - would you have a problem?

No. As long as he is within the legal framework, who am I to stop him?

But if I did have a problem with it, I have many options. I could possibly have a respectful conversation with the guy, if he is willing. We have a democratically elected legislative process. We have the freedom to go to a court with a PIL or to organize a peaceful campaign to enlighten our legislators to take action. Yes, we are in for a long haul, and chances are none of the above may bear fruit in today's India. But that is what happens in a developing democracy!.

And we always have the social structure to help the individual - in terms of family, friends, and the society at large. Reasons and excuses might be many - but today, unfortunately in my opinion, we don't do a good job teaching moral principles (truth, non-violence et al) to our kids. That is a topic worth a different thread altogether.

What we don't need is some body (however good their intentions might be) taking unilateral action, and undermining the basic freedoms. Like I said before, let us help mature our democracy. Not undermine it.

Ravi

Prachi Pandey said...

The more the reports from the Home Minister and NCW, the more it seems to be a political ploy! No one really cares about the culture. This sounds like an "SMS" to the liquor companies! But what I didnt understand was the NCW's statement where they mentioned that they saw women in "Nude Clothing.!"

Anonymous said...

it is sad that this happened but calling this the talibanization of india is far fetched, a good way to create viewership by creating drama. indians very much have this gora sahib mentality in the cities where the young generations dont even speak hindi/punjabi. all they do is speak english and if you've been to larger cities you would know.


this incident only highlights a losing battle for the talibanisl ol? in a country of a billion people a little incident at a pub doesnt make the whole culture more taliban. something like this would have occured on a much more frequent basis in the past.


the indian culture is moving towards western culture especially in the cities and trust me these influences are flooding the rural areas as well.
__________________

Anonymous said...

The attacks are outrageous – and I hope every political party of any standing in the country has condemned them. What is amazing and shocking is that in the middle of the melee, someone was shooting the whole thing on video – and was either not in a position to or did not make any attempt to intervene (specially that last shot of the girl sitting on a lounge chair and surrounded by these guys) – and the so called 'legal advisor' openly admitting that "because the public complained, we beat them"! I truly hope these people are publically thrashed – the same punishment that they thought fit to give to others…. As for the people who did it – and the guy behind it – here is a story from NDTV.com below – "What is Sri Ram Sena?". While the "third rate" Congress party :-) is busy blaming the BJP govt in Karnataka for this incidence (which govt anywhere is ever able to fully prevent any crime 100%?), they could have just read the newspapers to know this group has been started by a guy who has been expelled (no less!) from Bajrang Dal 4 years back, perhaps did not get any support for his extreme views even from the Shiv Sena – and so had to start this group on his own. The "third rate" BJP guys seem to have condemned it unequivocally enough – at least with the same intensity as the Congress guys :-) – but then that is neither here nor there! BJP and the Karnataka Govt MUST deal with this sort of hooliganism which has been on the rise to the fullest extent. Whatever be the beliefs of these fringe elements, they must NOT be allowed to take the law in their own hands. Mahesh PS: Raju – since you have asked the question many times – here are some links to what pseudo-secular and pseudo-secularism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudo-secular) mean! It says here – "Pseudo-secularism is the state of implicit non-secular trends in the face of pledged secularism. The term is used by groups who perceive a double standard exhibited within the established secular governing policy towards culturally different groups." There is another link – also interesting – about Indian Secularism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_secularism. Read the section "Criticism" in that. Let us all stop belaboring the obvious. Hope that rests that one. Cheers!

Anonymous said...

handful of men from a group thought of deciding how others should behave in Mangalore. The group is called Sri Ram Sena. Here's the history of the group and the man who founded it.There was nationwide outrage, as the images of the Mangalore pub incident scarred the collective psyche of a nation that's celebrating Republic Day.Pramod Muthalik is the man who laid the foundation of the right-wing Hindu group called the Sri Ram Sena."Whoever has done this has done a good job. Girls going to pubs is not acceptable. So, whatever the Sena members did was right. You are highlighting this small incident to malign the BJP government in the state," said Pramod.Pramod Muthalik, a full-time RSS man earlier, was the Karnataka coordinator of the Bajrang Dal four years ago. Soon he was expelled from the Bajrang Dal after which he joined the Shiv Sena and later he formed his own group.This isn't the first time the Sri Ram Sena has indulged in moral policing.In August, 2008, it vandalised an exhibition of M F Husain's paintings in Delhi.Interestingly, the group also finds mention in the Malegaon blast chargesheet filed by the Maharashtra Police. In the transcript of a conversation, the prime accused Colonel Purohit is quoted saying, "The Shri Ram Sena is doing very good work. Purohit calls the leader of the group as Muthalik.In an interview given to a website, Muthalik staunchly defended Sadhvi Pragya Thakur, another key accused in the Malegaon blast case, saying she is innocent.And now he's dismissing the Mangalore pub attack as a small incident.

Anonymous said...

India has been shamed again. Goons of a right wing Hindu outfit Sri Ram Sena in Mangalore barged into a pub and beat up women over the weekend - in its latest round of moral policing.Karnataka Chief Minister B S Yeddyurappa has reacted to the incident in Mangalore saying those responsible will be taken to task. He said that the police has been given full authority to take appropriate measures.The women's only fault was that they were found in the pub. Members of the Sri Ram Sena, who carried out the attack, justified their shameful actions.Meanwhile, speaking to NDTV, a victim of the attack by the Ram Sena workers said, "The whole thing was traumatising. No one came for our help."She recalled whatever happened to them."We were just having a good time and next you know people pulling your hair, hitting you and calling you names like prostitutes," said the victim."The last thing we want is to be spoken to like this and especially by hooligans who don't know what they are doing in the name of god," she said.More than 15 people have been arrested for the vicious attack as outrage over the incident spreads across the country.The miscreants have been sent to judicial custody till January 27 and have not been allowed bail. The miscreants have been charged with criminal assault, intimidation, outrage of modesty and criminal trespass.About 40 men were involved in the attack. Among the arrested are the district secretary and the joint convenor of the Sri Ram Sena.A special team has been set up to arrest those responsible for the attack. The incident took place over the weekend after the men, completely unrepentant, say they received complaints suggesting the women were dancing 'obscenely' in the pub and they decided to act.The hooligans chased the girls out, attacked men who tried to protect them, there are also reports that the girls were molested."So far we have arrested some people and we are further investigating the situation, we will take strong action," said A M Prasad, Inspector General, West Mangalore.Talking to NDTV, Karnataka Home Minister VC Acharya said action was being taken against the perpetrators.This is sadly not an isolated incident of groups taking the law into their own hands - churches and prayer halls around Mangalore were attacked just a few months ago over alleged conversions.In Bangalore, rave parties on the outskirts of the city were raided - not by police - but by members of the Kannada Rakshana Vedike.A state that once had a strong image of peace and tolerance seems to be heading in a very different direction now.

Anonymous said...

I have seen the report and condemn the act and the perpetrators. For the sake of truth, the facts must include that BJP has already condemned this. Having said this, let me assure you that I am not a supporter of the BJP though, as I understand it, their ideology is NOT communal but nationalistic. Why I do not support the BJP or any other party is that none of them really practice their respective ideologies honestly.
So we see the spectacle of a secular Congress going prostrate to appease Muslims (vote bank politics/pseudo-secularism for your understanding!) and having rabidly casteist, communal AND CORRUPT Hindus and Muslims in their ranks. We have Hindutwa type Shiv Sena guys like Raj Thakre wanting to divide the Hindus and the nation on the basis of language. Coming to BJP, the least further in my mind, they have betrayed the nationalistic cause by not openly, explicitly and loudly condemning our caste system (and people like Raj Thakre), by not clearly spelling out what their supposed nationalism means (to include Muslims `and Christians)!

Anonymous said...

Since the BJP assumed power in the state, the activities of the various tentacles of the RSS have intensified. Apart from whipping up communal passions and generating new tensions by creating disputes such as the Baba Bundanagiri shrine etc, the Bajrang Dal, VHP, the SRS, Hindu Jana Jagriti Samiti and other such outfits have sharpened their attacks against religious minorities, particularly the Christians. The anti-Christian violence in Karnataka rose sharply since the BJP government took over. In the month of September 2008 alone, various churches across the state were attacked and vandalised. These attacks had then created such a situation that the central government had to issue an advisory to the state government. The state government, however, continued to maintain that the attacks were provoked by `religious conversion’ of Hindus by Christians.




It is clear that the RSS and the Hindutva brigade will now seek to mount various assaults on modern India’s secular democratic foundations and its syncretic pluralistic traditions, as the general elections approach, in order to consolidate their `Hindu vote bank’. In the process, they continue to mount a serious challenge for the very unity and integrity of India and the stability of its social fabric. Such Hindutva Talibanisation seen in conjunction with the growth of attacks by Hindutva terrorism must sharply underscore the need to ensure that such forces do not get control of the reins of government both at the centre and in the states in the interests of our country and the people. All Indian patriots must rise unitedly to meet this challenge.

Anonymous said...

its a shear shame

Anonymous said...

Nothing surprises me any more when it comes to how low we can sink as a society in heaping abuses on India’s daughters. Even before she has been able to dry the tears from the last assault, comes the next one.Whether it is in the extraordinary crime we as a country are committing every day in eliminating our daughters through sex selection or burning young brides because they could not bring enough ‘dowry’, or simply, the rising graph of violent crimes against women, it is now a known fact that the government, across the political spectrum, is by and large indifferent to these crimes being played out every day.

And that is why the mayhem that unfolded in a pub in the once idyllic coastal town of Mangalore in Karnataka where young girls were brutally assaulted, openly molested and physically injured and overpowered by a bunch of goons who claimed to be part of an organization called the Sri Ram Sene certainly angers us but does not surprise. It is yet another dagger through our broken hearts.

Anonymous said...

Every time we celebrate a few trophies or milestones, out come the daggers to break our spirit. Just last week on a flight back from Belgaum to Bangalore I was celebrating with a woman crew member that we were being co-piloted by India’s youngest woman pilot… a smart, capable 20-year-old. Under the same Karnataka skies the very next day Mangalore’s mayhem played out.

It was once again a brutal reminder that as a country we have decided not to grant protection to half the population. Those who assault our daughters - whether they are the husbands, in-laws, fundamentalist groups or goons - they are all bold and unrelenting. Because they know that there is a political and judicial consent that they will get away with their crimes. That explains why after the attacks and the outrage they have been freely intimidating the women victims and also the sole man who came to their rescue.

Er. Paayal Sharma said...

As college girls come to the street in India’s IT capital to protest against the Mangalore crime, let the powers that be stand reminded that in this city 33 percent of the total workforce in IT companies and BPOs are women. Tomorrow, if self- appointed outfits like the Sri Ram Sene goons burst into these offices and try to ensure a dress code on women and insist that they not talk to their male colleagues, India’s Silicon Valley may indeed become the object of bad media.

A complicit government which privately supports the patriarchal philosophy of these groups must know that no woman will tolerate this kind of attack on their freedom, regardless of their political affiliations.

But till there is a political will to learn from the Mangalore incident, our daughters will be unsafe in this country. Till then India’s daughters will continue to weep.

Richa Saxena said...

BJP has made Karnataka a 'goonda' state.....when Ram Sena attacked Churches they were very much part of the Sangh Parivar. Shame on Yediurappa....he will make Karnataka worse than Bihar. People of Karnataka must wake up now before they wake up in a Bihar like place.This is Gujarat model of governence.....violence and more violence and police are asked to sit like ducks until further orders.

Anonymous said...

A loud and a very clear message should be sent out, to these rowdies, that imposition of morals will not be tolerated. But then looking at the Chief minister's reaction that would be wishful thinking.

Anonymous said...

Is this Sena emboldened by the win of the BJP in Karnataka?
If so then the party had better make sure these kind of hooligans are not allowed to harass and beat up people. Its really time to ban all types of senas in this country as they are not in sync with civil society.

Anonymous said...

I CONDEMN THIS ACT OF SUCH GOONDAS AND APPEAL TO AUTHORITIES TO GIVE A VERY SEVERE PUNISHMENT TO ALL SUCH GUYS AT THE EARLIEST . aLSO PUT IMMEDIATE BAN ON ALL SUCH SO CALLED PARTIES OF THESE ROUGE ELEMENTS.

Anonymous said...

i never expected people of 21st century to act like this. those involved should know that all human beings are equal and they are free to go to any shop (bar) some times your culture is missused cos whenever i do go with ma girl to bar in salem city the local people do abuse us. let evrybody enjoy his/her life.this is not the way men of the current world shud behave.shame on you BJP coz i know this guys were paid by politicians.

Anonymous said...

First person to be arrested should be Pramod Muthalik as he is the root of this problem ... no point hacking at the branches of this poisonous tree.... What we need is clear laws to deal with people inciting others to take the law in their own hands. Of late this seems to have become a common phenomena ... any one seeking some publicity comes up with his own set of rules .. the wierder the better .... and starts to enforce them with the help of some idiots who have nothing better to do .... and then gets away with it !!!!! we have seen the same story started by Raj thakre being repeated every where and like a typical bollywood masala movie it still finds patrons .... God help this country !!!

Anonymous said...

The Ram sena chief is telling that his guys were doing the duty.
Who gave them the duty to beatup the girls in the name of moral policing .
If they are doing something wrong, we have police and court here

Anonymous said...

"Give us time, We are probing."

Karnataka govt. is the same tactics which is used by Pakistan to hide their crimes by buying time and letting people forget about the incident.

This is Indian Taliban and the central govt must crush it in its nascent stage before it spreads.

Ruchika Mittal said...

We need answers to these questions:

1. If media is known that such an incident is going to take place why did not they inform police? If they have not done this they are equally a party to this crime.

2. If RAM SENA is responsible what is its current relationship with BJP and Congress?

3. If media is informed about the attack already it must be definitely handiwork of the opposition who wanted to paint a bad image on the ruling BJP. Who is this opposition and how dare he can do this?

4. Is Renuka the custodian of IMMORAL BEHAVIOUR in the name of FREEDOM? Any Selfrespecting and Dignified Parents donot want to see their daughter flirting out in a pub with alchol in one hand and cigrette in the other. What is this freedom Renuka is defending?

5. If any Hindu Organisation misbehaves Media is questioning BJP. Why the same media not questioning Congress if there are problems with Muslims and Christians? Is it that in the name of secularism Congress is allowed to get away with Murder?

Shalini Chopra said...

This incident is truly horrific and defies the free will of Indian citizens. Attacking women in mobs is a ghastly act of cowardliness. If they think they are heroes, let me say that we think they are worst than slum dogs who do it just to fulfill their drinking quota at nights. Rather than taking law into their own hands and justifying it, they should better let the law deal with social situations.

Anonymous said...

have only one question...why only the girls and women? Even if we assume they were doing drugs, Im sure there were men and boys doing it too. Will we ever get past these double standards?

Anonymous said...

One may call it the “Mangalore effect”, but what Rajasthan Chief Minister Ashok Gehlot told a group of media persons after addressing a party meeting at the Pradesh Congress Committee headquarters here on Wednesday about ending “pub culture” in the State has triggered a hot controversy. Coming as it does in the wake of the recent attack on the pub in Mangalore by the radical Sri Ram Sene, the words from a usually moderate Mr. Gehlot sounded as an expression of intolerance.

Mr. Gehlot, in fact, was speaking in the context of his Cabinet’s decision the previous day to close down 800 liquor shops against which complaints had been received in the past. Soon after taking over as Chief Minister last month, Mr. Gehlot had ordered closure of 156 liquor shops located near places of worship and educational institutions. The State’s new Excise Policy, cleared by the Cabinet, too seemed fashioned to discourage excessive consumption of liquor.

Ria said...

One may call it the “Mangalore effect”, but what Rajasthan Chief Minister Ashok Gehlot told a group of media persons after addressing a party meeting at the Pradesh Congress Committee headquarters here on Wednesday about ending “pub culture” in the State has triggered a hot controversy. Coming as it does in the wake of the recent attack on the pub in Mangalore by the radical Sri Ram Sene, the words from a usually moderate Mr. Gehlot sounded as an expression of intolerance.

Mr. Gehlot, in fact, was speaking in the context of his Cabinet’s decision the previous day to close down 800 liquor shops against which complaints had been received in the past. Soon after taking over as Chief Minister last month, Mr. Gehlot had ordered closure of 156 liquor shops located near places of worship and educational institutions. The State’s new Excise Policy, cleared by the Cabinet, too seemed fashioned to discourage excessive consumption of liquor.

Mr. Gehlot seemingly missed the Mangalore reports in the morning newspapers. Talking about ending the “liquor culture” promoted by the previous Bharatiya Janata Party government headed by Chief Minister Vasundhara Raje, he said his government wanted to end the easy availability of liquor in the State.

Tulip Banerjee said...

Its a shame on democratic n secular nation

Tracy said...

A Hindu and a Muslim girl or boy cannot talk to each other for fear of reprisal in Mangalore. The recent attacks on Christians in Mangalore would have also done their damage to alienate the Hindus from the Christians. The stage is now firmly set in these towns for assaults against women who dare to show any degree of independence or violate these ‘norms’ set by these Men of Hate.

Last year, there was an unprecedented attack on the STAR News television office in Mumbai because the channel was running a programme on a couple who had landed in trouble because of their mixed marriage - Hindu and Muslim. It was one of the worst attacks so far on a media organization with the saffron goons bursting into the sanctum sanctorum of news gathering - the editorial department - with their hockey sticks and clubs, smashing computers, tables and attacking scribes.

Convenient confusion is what these elements cause. They talk about the evils of drinking (as if they care about anyone’s health!) and women who dare to be seen in public spaces ‘drinking’. That the two are part of totally separate discourses needs to be exposed. ‘

Their bluff should be called. Where were these people when the poor women in India’s countryside in Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka and Manipur waged struggles against excessive ‘arrack’ liquor sales in their villages that were turning their husbands into alcoholics and impoverishing them further? At that time they used the state’s might and power and trained their guns on the agitating women to ensure that the arrack supplies reached the village shops. These very groups lobby and want to promote the sale of the cancer causing gutka, which is basically arecanut dipped in tobacco, to which children and women and young and old men across the country are becoming addicts.

Anonymous said...

Mangalore’s secular credentials have been suspect over a year. In September 2008, Bajrang Dal cadres attacked shrines and prayer halls of minority communities. A decade earlier, the 1998 Surathkal riots (the first time inflammatory speeches against other communities were openly made in the BJP-majority state assembly) had set a bitter precedent. Intermittent incidents laced with communal tension occured in the interim.

Tracy said...

The Passing of Arthur’ to justify his optimism: ‘The old order changeth, yielding place to new,/ And God fulfills himself in many ways,/Lest one good custom should corrupt the world

Preeti said...

It was the Rome of the East and an important maritime trading centre. It did business with Mesopotamia, Egypt and the Arab
world. The young and the industrious migrated to Bombay, Madras and the Gulf, as was the town’s culture. Mangalore has modernised, but it respected an individual’s religious identity.

Its a ugly game of politics

Shreya Rajput said...

Its a ugly game of politics n they are playing with public in name of protecting religion n its beliefs but yes u pointed out nicely on responsibilities of famel in WORD OF CAUTION

Regards

Anonymous said...

its a matter of gr8 shame n concern

अल्पना वर्मा said...

That incident was shameful.
Part of dirty politics..i totally condemn this kind of attacks by so called social thekedaars' on citizen of worlds largest democratic country.
Attacking women anywhere in the name of 'religion or culture protection is ghastly act of cowardliness.
Where is the law?

Priya Talwar said...

if partying is against indian culture is beating women n offending them in favor of them.

These parties in stead of concentrating on main issues are doing all stupid n absolute non-sense acts, its highly condemnable and ghastly act.

Anouska Awasthi said...

its really a matures of gr8 concern...no one can tak law in their hands n go on rampaga like this

Old Lady Lincoln said...

I never know what to say when I read your blog. I feel so bad that things happen to anyone like this, no matter who or where they live. It's true there is no place where laws should be taken into the public's own hands. So often innocent people get hurt and killed. I feel so bad that this has and does happen not only in your country but any country.

R. Ramesh said...

The other word for fanaticism is hatred..those who love are loved, and those who hate...well...r hated..These fanatics...we have better things to do boss..
Avinash, I am really touched and honoured by yr invite..May is far away and v will stay connected..thanks once again..

R. Ramesh said...

The other word for fanaticism is hatred..those who love are loved, and those who hate...well...r hated..These fanatics...we have better things to do boss..
Avinash, I am really touched and honoured by yr invite..May is far away and v will stay connected..thanks once again..

Anonymous said...

its really shame on democratic republic....

Tulip Banerjee said...

Who have given these road side rogues the right for moral policing. Do they know anything about morality...pathetic, horrible thinking

Anonymous said...

India is changing fast. And it is changing at a faster rate socially. However the change is not even along the spectra of society. The younger lot, who give a damn about politics, have discovered new independence in terms of wealth and opportunity. And the older lot and the ones left behind, who are active politically, have not been able to digest the rapid changes.

The female, who till now had the role of housemaker, has discovered new found financial independence and many young girls have started to believe and realise that they can be as independent as a man. Thus the young girl of today instead of helping out in kitchen prefers to go for a "cool evening" out with friends without time restrictions, a domain held previously only by the boys of the home. With the advent of internet and TV, she has discovered doors which probably she never knew existed.

The male of the society, previously the keeper of social and economic duties, is being ruffeled. He, who for such a long time, could script the story and direct the proceedings is suddenly finding himself alone. He is keen to hold onto this bastion. The other females of the society who feel deprived of this change are not willing to let others enjoy this new found independence and are desperate to bring them into the structure in which they had for long suffered.

Anonymous said...

Its a sad fact that the people who are politically active belong to the category who have refused to accept these changes and want things to remain as they are either because of fear of losing the dominance (males) or because of jealous intentions (females). The younger lot who are living these changes and are probably the most productive of Indians, contributing to its economic upheaval, are disgusted with politics and want to have no part of it. The fact that exciting opportunities exist beyond the borders of India also makes them lax in regard to taking action against the "lack of freedom" in the so-called "democratic" India.

And all this contributes to the victories of the old gaurd hellbent on resisting changes and imposing so-called "Moral Policing".

But that does not mean that the old gaurd would be winning forever. As seen in the Meerut incident the young people were out on the streets which forced the authorities to take action. Its only a matter of time before a change of guard happens. The wait is on for the straw which would break the camels back. I just hope it is sooner rather than later.

Anonymous said...

hey great blog man!!!!!!!!well i hav to prepare fr a debate on "MORAL POLICING"and my search ends here \!!!!!!!!i hope the so cal;led activists will fight against other issues like childlabour,poverty than filing useles cases and destroying property by revoltng against valentines day,and all other nonsense!!!!!!!iI want the politicians to understand the meaning of "democratic country" please check it out and act accordingly!!!!!!!!! and the new generation plz wake up and join ur hands against unjustice done to us on the basis of "moral policing" and create a new india !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Look at the segment they are targetting, people who will not be able to call up a minister or threaten them or file a case in court. The police and the government are the most rotten instituion in India now and the judiciary inspite of being pretty good in most cases is simply acting stupid in some cases, particulalry when it concerns sex and private life.
You can be rest assured taht this institutions will never ever dare to check out for "morality violation" in the following places; 4 star 5 star hotels, private resort of big people, call girls who has got a respected client list. They will target bar girls, prostitutes on the street, middle and lower middle class couples in park and so on. Each "success" gives them a media attention and some promotions.. job well done boys!!! You have saved the HOLY COW!!
Nobody knows who gave them the damn permission to teach people "morality"

Anonymous said...

Indians (the old guard) pretends to ban immoral activities when infact they are exercising extreme prudishness over the newer generation. Everything of a sensual nature is considered immoral to the old guard. They will drool over the sex kittens of bollywood, but when it comes time to confront sexuality amongst their midst and family, suddenly sex is evil and all sensual matter should be banned, hidden and never spoken of. This in turn only creates greates sexual angst amongst the youth (forbidden fruit has become more forbidden syndrome).

I just hope that Indians can get off their high horse about sexual mores and realize that independence of choosing careers and life-partners will be the norm. Rather than applying the brakes, we should be accelerating towards this independence .. which also brings with it more liberal attitudes towards sex.

I do not know how the Bombay HC banned adult films. I mean, can the judge just get up one morning and say to himself "I think I will ban all short skirts today .. yeah that should be fun" ? How is it that the entire cable industry has kept mum on this. They should be up in arms suing against the HC judge .. since India has not yet matured enough to distinguish between "adult" movies vs "C-grade erotic" movies. Thanks to them, even Tom and Jerry cartoons cannot be shown.

Anonymous said...

One cannot justify the pub culture, but moral policing is not the way to oppose it. Also there should not be dual policy discriminating the two genders. Men going to pub should equally be objectionable. There should not be two different social rules or ethical principles for girls and boys. Women activists will always condemn incidents like the recent one at Mangalore, where activists of a so-called radical and pro-Hindu group Shri Ram Sena attacked and molested girls in a pub. It’s an indication of male-dominated violence. Even though, girls going to pub is viewed as an immoral act, nobody has the right to take law into their hands and beat the daughters of others.One can only try to change the mindset of such girls by counselling and elaborating the evils of pub culture. We can motivate them, but cannot encroach upon their constitutional rights. Girls are free to roam anywhere they want. The girls, who were badly beaten up at the pub, are legally matured as well, enforcing their voting rights. Who gave Shri Ram Sena the right to beat them up? Their parents can punish or stop them from going to pubs, but a social group cannot play the role of moral police. It would be a rude way to correct them.

Anonymous said...

Women going to pubs is against Indian culture

I would not justify the conduct of Shri Ram Sena activists, but at the same time, I would also support the fight for preserving our culture and ethical values.Basically, the opposition must emerge at the time of establishment of a pub. Moreover, women and girls going to pubs is not only an immoral activity but is also against our culture. We can observe that girls from a particular economic stratum of the society enjoy such a free culture like pub, parties, drinking and drug. Girls staying at hostels away from parents to pursue education or jobs too are addict to such a life style. Nobody will approve such things happen in the social life. Even parents of the girls or family members of such women would not agree with these facts. Hence, there should be some responsible social authority to guide them. However, it should be directed properly. Male activists beating up girls at a public place like pub is definitely misbehaviour. Instead women groups could have come forward. Through these women activists, action against girls at the pub could have been taken.

Anonymous said...

why is women goin to pubs wrong culture.... if india has to keep up with the world and not always lag behind india has to hav places where ppl can go relax( and by india i mean both men and women)... i mean business deals hav been signed off with a glass of beer....which is profitable for both the company and the country... and is a women not a part of indias professional world.?... let me tell u one thing we need a place where women are not looked down on... and in a pub women and men hav a healthy relationship... yes somtimes things in a pub can go wrong... but isnt there pros and cons to everything.... i mean we hav a disgusting political scene in the country... but we still hav politicians ... right?.... people need to open their mind and think...women need to be tough ....and one more thing there also should be legal age to enter pubs and that is above 18 or it can be increased to even 21 or 25... our government should look into these matters instead of our ministers sitting on theur butts and making money... THIS IS THE SOLUTION

Ritu said...

Why do our stupid miniters, or some social group is so much concerned about the pub culture. India is a democratic country and everyone has the freedom of speech in this case i would say freedom to live life the we want. How can some stupid social group decide about our lives. If am hugry will they give me food, if i dont have house will they give me shelter, if the answers to these questions are no!! Then I dont think there is any reason for them to oppose the pub culture. I am the master of my own life and I know what is good or what is bad for me. There are so many things to talk on or improve upon and poverty being one of the major things. Why dont these social groups come forward to eradicate poverty. These social groups are the brain child of our politicians who are of the view that poverty is good for the country, by giving them a dream they are making their positions strong. The act at the mangalore pub was inhuman. There are lots of things to improve upon as I said, lets forget the pub culture for sometime, and see how the social and economic conditions of the poor people can be improved

Er. Paayal Sharma said...

I agree with the moral policing by Shri Ram Sena. Suppose a young boy, A, finds - by chance - his young sister, B, going to pub with her boy friend, C. If the boy, A, resists the sister, B, and C - as a reaction - then there is nothing wrong in it. This act of brothering is nothing but moral policing and I consider it as a correct one, from the point of view of Indian culture of centuries. In fact, we have to resist pub visits, rev parties, live-in relationship etc. Even if there is the Raavan Sena doing moral policing, resisting pub culture and similar bad trends in the society, I will support that because Raavan did not go to a pub or a rev party.

Shweta Saxena said...

its absolute non-sense beatin women n taking law in hand

Anonymous said...

The shout against 'moral policing' rests on this logic. "If the society were to police, it would be lawless. If the community were to do it, it would be oppressive. If the family were to police, it would be stifling. So allow the law, only the law, to police. That is, allow only the state to police. In other words, allow only the police to police.

Anonymous said...

To amoralise to destroy (other's) families cannot make one a liberal. Yet, the liberals are keen to usher in a society free of all morals and living in amorality as the norm. Is this not amoral policing? In their view, 'Moral policing' is un-modern, but 'amoral policing' is modern.

Preeti said...

as horrible as its gets

Anonymous said...

As for dress codes, university and college campuses in developed countries have "student rights officers," and it is well recognised that it is a serious transgression for college teachers and administrators so much as to comment on such personal matters as dress, demeanour, lifestyle, ethnicity, and the social background of students. Morality is a contentious and complex subject.

Anonymous said...

inhuman' action against girls. It is disgusting that they thrashed girls. Instead, they should have informed police and protested in front of the pub.

Anonymous said...

In a secular country, everyone has the right to freedom. If they feel women are indulging in activities defaming the Indian culture they should have opposed it legally

Jyoti Dixit said...

They should have restricted women from going to pubs instead of beating them

Jyoti Dixit said...

inhuman' action against girls. "It is disgusting that they thrashed girls. Instead, they should have informed police and protested in front of the pub."

Anonymous said...

is unfortunate that in the name of Hindutva, citizens were assaulted. It could be politically motivated. The whole episode looked like the Taliban way of protest

Anonymous said...

Punish them first. Unfortunately our nation''s minister and it''s law become so impotent they every one is taking law in their hands. Be it Mumbai, Bangalore or rest. Day is not far when it will like Taliban or Pakistan. I feel sad about this, as it hurts me.

Dr.Rita Raman said...

We should not allow any organisation, or even the government, to set moral standards for us. Laws are a different matter. But women have a right to eat, drink, smoke or dance in a pub and they should be able to do it without fear. Today, this has happened, and tomorrow, we can be sure another little-kjnown bunch of unemployed hooligans will the use the same excuse - “our culture is under threat” - and try to get some notoriety.

Dr. Gunjan Gehlot said...

Such Hindutva Talibanisation seen in conjunction with the growth of attacks by Hindutva terrorism must sharply underscore the need to ensure that such forces do not get control of the reins of government both at the centre and in the states in the interests of our country and the people. All Indian patriots must rise unitedly to meet this challenge.

Dr.Ruchika Rastogi said...

its shame few hooligans are taking law in their hands in name of protectinIndian Culture

Kanupriya said...

This is an unpardonable atrocity on freedom guaranteed by the constitution.

Trisha Pandey said...

If a society treats a woman like this - we dont deserve to be called a society.
Our freedom is at stake here. How can some one tell us what is right and wrong for us. Who are these people to define what is morality - a bunch of jobless, frustrated, neglected people - being instigated by people like Muthalik. It is an attack on the rights promised by our constitution. It is a clear human rights violation.

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